残损的艺术诉求——廖雯对话童振刚
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
随着艺术家童振刚最新陶瓷作品《暴力的脆弱》的出现，艺术领域众多批评家、学者、藏家、艺术家都对此次新作发表了不同见解。近日，著名批评家、策展人廖雯与童振刚关于最新陶瓷系列作品创作的背后进行了一场深入的对话探讨。
著名批评家、策展人廖雯女士Famous Critic and Curator Ms. Liao Wen
童：我在景德镇待了半年时间，用瓷做了一批作品，就是上次你来工作室看到那些。做了大概一百多件，报废了一些，最终有大概七、八十件作品，我想在美国做个展览，出一本画册。想请你谈谈对这批作品的看法。
廖：简单地说，当代艺术用什么技术都可以，传统绘画、雕塑、水墨，工艺的瓷等，甚至科技的，都可以用，但艺术最重要的你想表达什么，也就是你做这批作品的艺术诉求是什么。把瓷的脆弱性转化成语言是方力钧做出来的，方力钧这么做有他自己的诉求，他很清楚他要表达什么，要什么效果。我想你借用类似的方式，也应该有你个人的想法。
童：方力钧和我的方式其实不一样。其实早年我也做过瓷器。1999年的时候就在景德镇做过一批瓷器，去了三、四次，都是做简单的在瓶罐上画作品，我觉得挺没劲的，就不想这么做了。后来再去景德镇的时候，经常看看到制作瓷器其是一个极具破坏性的过程。一件瓷器，做好之后发现有瑕疵，就砸掉，多年之后发现好的作品其实没有几件，砸掉的残品反而堆成了山。这些无意识堆成山的残品，给了我做作品的灵感。
廖：你想要这种残损的状态？童：对，我想引申到这点：一种材料性的，残损的，脆弱的感觉。我生病多年，做过十次手术，通过绘画，雕塑都没有找到这种感觉。突然，我发现瓷的易碎感是我一直想追求的感觉。那么如何去寻找呢？直接地通过那些堆成山的瑕疵品，把原有的带有名的东西破掉，变成一个道的东西，没有名了，破碎之后回到最原始的状态。当然，「残破感」，是我有意识做出来的。我在三、四年间，去了几次景德镇。后来我又去方力钧的工作室看他的作品，看他怎么烧瓷制，才知道原来瓷器可以做的这么薄。他的作品是有一种城市坍塌的感觉，而我想要的不是这些。我在景德镇做过很多实验，这期间方力钧也给我讲了很多种方式方法。比如有几个美国人在景德镇做实验，窑都炸开了，各种方式，烧窑烧的屋里屋外都是黑烟。这给我很大启发，原来「破损的感觉」可以有这么多方式做出来。我最终找到了我想要的感觉：烧之后是完好的，把它切开，四周切齐，露出材料本身的破损，有一种人为造成的残次的感觉。
方力钧作品，《2013陶瓷008》, 108x105x78cm，陶瓷，2013Fang Lijun Works，2013Ceramic008，108x105x78cm,Ceramic,2013
方力钧作品，《2016陶瓷003》, 108x105x78cm，陶瓷，2016Fang Lijun Works，2016Ceramic003，108x105x78cm,Ceramic,2016
《暴力的脆弱》，60x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,60x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
廖：如手术。另一个问题是，为什么用方块呢？童：我的作品其实不是方块，是一整块的瓷板。廖：一个整的瓷板，上面是一个像空壳似的东西？童：是的。就像做蛋糕一样，先是一块瓷板在下面托底。上面我用的是卫生纸，卫生纸没有形，我把它揉成团，沾上浆之后做出一个大致的形状，然后做出一堆摆成形，再在上面铺纱布，烧的时候，里面还是有些内容可以支撑住，纱布的纹理也会留在上面。
廖：红颜色是上在纱布上的？童：对。我其实一直想用一种性感的红色来表达自己。后来我看到一组照片，是关于女性用品的，我发现照片放大后纱布下面透出点桃红色，是我想要的。经过反复实验，在双层纱布上刷桃红色的釉，烧出来之后，上面的红色发亮，底下并不亮，这样有一个反差。廖：上面绳子的型和画的格子也是有语义的吗？童：格子其实是一种捆绑，网状的方式，把自己罩在里面。我之前的绘画里也有很多网状的东西。作品出来之后我发现打格子的绳子很出效果，跟真的很像。
廖：好，都说清楚了。你说的这些是最重要的。原则上当代艺术什么方法都可以使用。陶瓷原来是工艺的方法，如果你想用陶瓷的方法，那必须有你自己的艺术诉求。如果你没有艺术诉求，那技术就是技术，如果用到它的性质表达了艺术诉求，技术就是语言。童：是的。下一步我可能想尝试用更新型的材料做，怎样才能让作品有更好的展示效果，这点让我很兴奋。
2019.09.15于宋庄小堡 廖雯工作室
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
《暴力的脆弱》 10x10x10cmx400 陶瓷 2019
Fragile Violence,10x10x10cmx400,Ceramic, 2019
Tong: I spent six months in Jingdezhen, doinga batch of works with porcelain which the last time you came to see in thestudio. I did more than a hundred pieces and scrapped some. I ended up withabout seven or eighty works. I want to make an exhibition in the United Statesand produce a book. I would like to ask you to talk about the views of theseworks.Liao: In short, many techniques, such as traditionalpainting, sculpture, ink painting, craft porcelain, and even technology can beused in contemporary art. But the most important thing you want to express isthat you do this batch. What is the artistic appeal of the work?Turning the fragility of porcelain intolanguage is made by Fang Lijun. Fang Lijun has his own demands to do this. Heis very clear about what he wants to express and what effect he wants. I think youborrow a similar approach and should have your own personal thoughts.
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
Tong: My way is actually different from FangLijun.In fact, I also made porcelain in my earlyyears. In 1999, I made a batch of porcelain in Jingdezhen. I went to three orfour times. They all simply painted on the bottle. I felt quite boring anddidn't want to do it. Later, when I went to Jingdezhen, I often saw that makingporcelain was actually a very destructive process. A piece of porcelain, if itis found to be flawed, it will be thrown off. After many years, it was foundthat there were not many good works, and the broken pieces were piled up intomountains. These unconscious piles of mountains and debris have given meinspiration for my work.
Liao: Do you want this state of damage?Tong: Yes, I want to extend this to this: amaterial, damaging and fragile feeling. I have been ill for many years and havehad 10 operations. I have not found this feeling through painting. Suddenly, Ifound that the fragile feeling of porcelain is the feeling I always wanted topursue. So how do you find it? Directly through those piled up products, theoriginal name of the thing is broken, turned into a Tao, no name, broken backto the most primitive state. Of course, the "broken feeling" is whatI consciously made. I went to Jingdezhen several times in three or four years.Later, I went to Fang Lijun's studio to see his work and see how he burnedporcelain, only to know that the original porcelain can be made so thin. Hiswork has the feeling of a city collapse, and I don't want it. I have done a lotof experiments in Jingdezhen. During this period, Fang Lijun also told me a lotof ways and means. For example, there are several Americans who experiment in Jingdezhen, and the kiln is blasted. In various ways, the kiln makes black smoke outside the house.This gave me a lot of inspiration, and the original"broken feeling" can be made in so many ways. I finally found the feeling I wanted: it was intact after burning, cut it open, and it was cutaround, revealing the damage of the material itself, and there was a feeling ofhuman beings.
Liao: Such as surgery. Another question is,why use squares?Tong: My work is actually not a square, it isa whole piece of porcelain.Liao: A whole porcelain plate with ashell-like thing on it?Child: Yes. Just like making a cake, first usea porcelain plate to make the bottom. Then I used toilet paper on it, thetoilet paper has no shape, I smashed it into a ball, made a rough shape aftersizing, and then made a bunch of pendulums, and then laid a gauze on it. Whenburning, there was still some content inside. It can be supported and thetexture of the gauze will remain on it.
Liao: Is the red color on the gauze?Child: Right. I have always wanted to expressmyself in a sexy red. Later, I saw a set of photos about women's products. Ifound that the photos were enlarged and the pink cloth underneath the gauze waswhat I wanted. After repeated experiments, the pink glaze was brushed on thedouble gauze. After burning, the red color on the top was bright and the bottomwas not bright, so there was a contrast.Liao: Is the type of the rope and the grid ofthe painting also semantic?Tong: The plaid is actually a bundled,mesh-like way to cover yourself. There are also many mesh things in my previouspaintings. After the work came out, I found that the plaid rope was veryeffective, and it was very similar.
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
Liao: Ok, it’s all clear. What you said is themost important. In principle, any method of contemporary art can be used.Ceramics were originally a method of craftsmanship. If you want to useceramics, you must have your own artistic appeal. If you don't have an artisticappeal, then technology is only technology. If you use its nature to expressartistic appeal, technology is language.Child: Yes. In the next step, I may want totry to use the updated materials, how to make the works have a better displayeffect, which makes me very excited.
2019.09.15 in Liao Wen Studio,Songzhuang Xiaopu
《暴力的脆弱》，120x60cm，陶瓷，2019
Fragile Violence,120x60cm,Ceramic, 2019
著名批评家、策展人廖雯（左）与艺术家童振刚（右）
Famous Critic and Curator Liao Wen (Left) and Artist Tong Zhengang (Right)
关于艺术家
童振刚
当代艺术家，曾经历知青、钻井工、仪表工、记者、教师。
先后就读于解放军艺术学院、中央美术学院。
曾在美国，英国，法国，德国，日本，意大利，韩国，新加坡，香港，迪拜等多个国家举办展览。
作品深获国内外各界广泛关注，被国际多个美术馆、博物馆及知名私人收藏家收藏。
现工作生活于北京。
Tong ZhengangContemporary artist, has experienced educated youth,drilling worker， instrumentation, journalist, teacher. He studied at the Art Academy of the People's Liberation Army and the Central Academy of Fine Arts. He has held exhibitions in the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai and other countries.His works have received wide attention from all walks of life at home and abroad, and have been collected by many international art galleries, museums and well-known private collectors. He works and lives in Beijing now.